Fire Dubas Official Thread

[Dog Taker 5,322]

8 hours ago, ShanaplanMan said:

Yes, this is our team moving forward. And the same mistakes keep being made by management generation after generation. Winners hold on to their best drafted players long term.

Time the Leafs got that clue.

Fuck fan opinion and calls for blood. We need some career Leafs.

Marner Tavares although free agent signing, Reilly and Matthews should more or less spend the rest of their careers in Toronto. Kadri should have too. And the next homegrown goalie be it Woll or whoever can step up from within should as well.

Stop the revolving door of rotating core.

nylander was drafted too.... and is still developing...

55 minutes ago, 1_new_name said:

Kadri is exactly the 5th best drafted player in a long whatever the fuck that means.  Rielly, Nylander, Matthews, and Marner - all clearly a level above. Trading Kadri wasn't the mistake it was the complete ineptitude on the return.  

pretty much this.  kadri couldnt fit in once tavares was here, even though he is a solid player, but we sure did waste the return for him.  

[JockDent 1,014]

8 hours ago, ShanaplanMan said:

Yes, this is our team moving forward. And the same mistakes keep being made by management generation after generation. Winners hold on to their best drafted players long term.

Time the Leafs got that clue.

Fuck fan opinion and calls for blood. We need some career Leafs.

Marner Tavares although free agent signing, Reilly and Matthews should more or less spend the rest of their careers in Toronto. Kadri should have too. And the next homegrown goalie be it Woll or whoever can step up from within should as well.

Stop the revolving door of rotating core.

Our scouts have done a very poor job, before Dubas, and after, Todd.

Apart from picking the obvious, Matthews, Marner, their other picks have been terrible, especially goalies.

Even when they pick a so called gem like Sandin or Robertson, it's not so much that they uncovered a gem, but more that the other teams probably deemed them too small, and that's why they were still available.

Edited August 20, 2020 by JockDent

[Morrison7 12,332]

Sandin was projected to be a mid to late first-round pick by many, but keep blowing smoke out your ass. Nobody gives a major fuck about size anymore either, as long as the skill and potential is there. It's not 2000 anymore.

[Matthews34 1,171]

1 hour ago, Dog Taker said:

nylander was drafted too.... and is still developing...

pretty much this.  kadri couldnt fit in once tavares was here, even though he is a solid player, but we sure did waste the return for him.  

I saw a post on another board, if we kept Kadri we could have rolled out a top six of:

Tavares - Matthews - Marner

Hyman - Kadri - Nylander

Seeing how Kerfoot and Barrie panned out with Barrie walking as well, I would have much rather kept Kadri. Every GM makes mistakes though.

[JockDent 1,014]

41 minutes ago, Morrison7 said:

Sandin was projected to be a mid to late first-round pick by many, but keep blowing smoke out your ass. Nobody gives a major fuck about size anymore either, as long as the skill and potential is there. It's not 2000 anymore.

You're right, size doesn't matter anymore if you don't mind not qualifying for the playoffs.

[Raiden 9,130]

... I mean, that's certainly... A take of some kind 

[Morrison7 12,332]

6 minutes ago, Raiden said:

... I mean, that's certainly... A take of some kind 

A terrible one.

The Leafs average weight of 199 was tied for 12th in the league. Their average height of 6’1” was tied for 11th, and they have three players under 5'10", one of them being Robertson. But I guess we can pretend that the Muzzin and Clifford trades didn’t happen and that Dubas thinks this team is a finished product.

🙄

Edited August 20, 2020 by Morrison7

[Matthews34 1,171]

Height is definitely not as big of a factor as it once was. However if we could add some size who know how to actually use it, it's definitely a bonus.

[Morrison7 12,332]

1 minute ago, Matthews34 said:

Height is definitely not as big of a factor as it once was. However if we could add some size who know how to actually use it, it's definitely a bonus.

Muzzin, Clifford, and Mikheyev prior to his injury were a start, and there is no issue with adding more so long as they’re not just meatheads.

[StepOnYou 162]

2 hours ago, JockDent said:

This thread starts February 24th, posing the question:

"Let it officially begin. I literally have ZERO faith in Dubas turning this team/mess around."

I ask you now Matty, do you feel any different?

No change. I thought this was one of the more frustrating seasons in terms of these players playing consistently. That includes everyone: forwards, defense, and goalies. 

I thought Barrie might turn out to be ok. I knew he was poor defensively. I really questioned the Ceci signing, although I know that Zaitsev needed to be dealt. I had no expectations for Ceci and knew he wouldn't be that good as a top pairing D. 

Our backup goalie situation continued, and I'm glad Dubas finally got one. Perhaps he did it too late though. 

The team-wide softness was always an issue, and I felt that was dealt with properly. Again. Probably  too late IMHO. 

I hated how Dubas moved Marleau and a first round pick to CAR. I thought TOR should have just let his contract expire, but in a minor role. He wasn't a great player anymore, but he wasn't a bum. 

I am now starting to wonder about Keefe. He was brutal in the 5 games against CBJ and there's no defending his gaffes. I also wonder if he makes every single roster decision based on what Dubas would like to see (for example playing Ceci at 2D or playing Kerfoot at 3C). I know that this is Keefe's first go, but Holy God. That was just plain embarrassing. 

This whole year was a massive failure. The team has no 1st round pick, they didn't even make the playoffs, they are in cap hell, and they've discovered  that the Leafs are not at all close to being a team who can challenge for a Cup.

Edited August 20, 2020 by StepOnYou

[PIPERSMAN63 9,225]

If we really must fire someone, make it Shanahan. The GM has changed, the coach has changed. So guess who is next?

[StepOnYou 162]

3 minutes ago, PIPERSMAN63 said:

If we really must fire someone, make it Shanahan. The GM has changed, the coach has changed. So guess who is next?

After another poor season, or even bounced from the 1st round Shanny will like go. If there is a new regime Dubas and Keefe will be next. They could easily restructure the President position, and that doesn't always make things safe for a GM. Hard to image that Dubas is safe with Shanny gone. I don't disagree with you though. Shanny is part of the failure.

[n0nsense 27,028]

Height? We think the problem with this team is fucking height?

[Raiden 9,130]

9 minutes ago, 1_new_name said:

Height? We think the problem with this team is fucking height?

Autocorrected from "heart" is all I can think of. 

[JockDent 1,014]

1 hour ago, Morrison7 said:

A terrible one.

The Leafs average weight of 199 was tied for 12th in the league. Their average height of 6’1” was tied for 11th, and they have three players under 5'10", one of them being Robertson. But I guess we can pretend that the Muzzin and Clifford trades didn’t happen and that Dubas thinks this team is a finished product.

🙄

Where did Muzzin and Clifford come from?

Oh yeah, LA where most of the team were pretty big, and guess what, they won Stanley Cups, twice.

Size still matters, even in this analytic age.

Edited August 20, 2020 by JockDent

[brocto 2,107]

Fine, I’ll say it then.

 

’that’s what she said, JD’

[Komissar Sasha 16,839]

3 hours ago, Raiden said:

I'm not sure how you're missing the point so badly? 

 

Keeping the backend the same, puts us in an even worse position than we are in now. 

 

Where are you lost? 

From one of the lesser lights you could reasonably chalk this up to limited capabilities. In DocJ it's almost certainly a deliberate effort to avoid what is obvious and right in front of his face.

Manilow's Syndrome.

[Doc J 4,240]

2 hours ago, Я́ков Миха́йлович Юро́вски said:

From one of the lesser lights you could reasonably chalk this up to limited capabilities. In DocJ it's almost certainly a deliberate effort to avoid what is obvious and right in front of his face.

Manilow's Syndrome.

What’s obvious, and right in front of your face is that:

1) There is no cap “flexibility”

2) There is no defensive improvement.

 

When dubas was given the gig, the leafs had two top legit D, both LD, and a bunch of crap filling in the rest.  
 

Two years in, and the leafs have...    ...wait for it...   ...    ...2 legit D and a bunch of crap filling in the rest.  

To hopefully bring this into sharper relief, thereby making it impossible to continue to miss; if a 40yr old (left handed) Ron Hainsey walks through the door, he’s immediately our best RHD.  Still!!

And again, the only positive thing you can say about Dubas’ additions is that they’re gone.  Which is great, except that leaves you one RD (Holl), and $4m to fill, and presumably upgrade those spots, while also signing your RFAs, and Spezza.  

So, that’s a no on improving the defense.

And, a no on the whole $ flexibility thing.

Savvy?  

Edited August 20, 2020 by Doc J

[Matthews34 1,171]

Zaitsev for Ceci was a great move regardless. We suffer one year of Ceci opposed to 5 years of Zaitsev. Dubas just failed because the cap flexibility from that trade you'd think it would have created doesn't exist because Dubas invested so much into the forwards leaving our blueline just as shit as it was a year ago.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Matthews34

[Raiden 9,130]

You know you're in rough shape when he gets it and you don't 

[Doc J 4,240]

1 hour ago, Matthews34 said:

Zaitsev for Ceci was a great move regardless. We suffer one year of Ceci opposed to 5 years of Zaitsev. Dubas just failed because the cap flexibility from that trade you'd think it would have created doesn't exist because Dubas invested so much into the forwards leaving our blueline just as shit as it was a year ago.

Dumping Zaitsev, sounds great.  
Trading genital warts for Ceci is a loss.  
 

There is no defensive upgrade(s).

There is no cap space.  
That’s sorta the issue.

But apart from that, it’s a smashing success.  

1 hour ago, Raiden said:

You know you're in rough shape when he gets it and you don't 

Yes.  
He got it.  
We can only hope it’s not contagious.  

[Morrison7 12,332]

9 hours ago, Dog Taker said:

nylander was drafted too.... and is still developing...

pretty much this.  kadri couldnt fit in once tavares was here, even though he is a solid player, but we sure did waste the return for him.  

The trade aged poorly, but also some crummy luck too. If Barrie gives us a playoffs like he had last year the Leafs still might be playing right now imo. I don't have any issues with Kerfoot.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Morrison7

[n0nsense 27,028]

It's not "crummy luck". It was a weak return. Is MLSE's ballsweat salty or sweet?

[Morrison7 12,332]

Just now, 1_new_name said:

It's not "crummy luck". It was a weak return. Is MLSE's ballsweat salty or sweet?

You’d think with all your free time you’d have better material that doesn’t sound like it came from Todd. Literally nobody except for him complained about the trade at the time, and it certainly wasn’t because of the return. They did get a top 4 RHD for him, but Barrie never fully recovered after his pisspoor start.

They sold low on him and frankly, Kadri’s down season, second playoff suspension in a row, and vetoing trades to other teams didn’t help.

[Dog Taker 5,322]

19 minutes ago, Morrison7 said:

You’d think with all your free time you’d have better material that doesn’t sound like it came from Todd. Literally nobody except for him complained about the trade at the time, and it certainly wasn’t because of the return. They did get a top 4 RHD for him, but Barrie never fully recovered after his pisspoor start.

They sold low on him and frankly, Kadri’s down season, second playoff suspension in a row, and vetoing trades to other teams didn’t help.

well, many of us were happy that dubas managed to switch up our terrible D and give us a new look, but there were indeed reservations over trading kadri for a 1 year player.   people swallowed it because we were supposedly going to take a big step forward.  well, not only was it a rental, it was no step forward.

so sure, many were hopeful, and why not, but trades get to be assessed afterwards too, and it has failed this assessment.  as a GM, you only get a finite number of failures, and this was a big one, so he damn well better get some more wins coming through, because we clearly aren’t in the conversation yet.